surroundfan
Sep 6, 06:56 AM
Most of Europe's down. Oz and the US are still up, so a product update's unlikely (I'd guess)...
MattG
Aug 7, 07:40 AM
I was kind of getting tired of Apple updating the iPods so often, but now that we've had all these recent updates to other hardware (laptops, iMacs), I'd be kind of excited now to see something really new and different from the iPod lineup. Here's to hoping for something with a huge screen and better video capabilities.
justinLONG
Apr 3, 11:34 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)
This ad campaign is trying to do what Think Different (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oAB83Z1ydE) did. Let's see how good it gets, but nothing will top the Think Different campaign. Nothing.
oh geez there's a tear in my eye now. I love those ads
This ad campaign is trying to do what Think Different (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oAB83Z1ydE) did. Let's see how good it gets, but nothing will top the Think Different campaign. Nothing.
oh geez there's a tear in my eye now. I love those ads
Multimedia
Aug 25, 10:14 AM
I havent yet found a situation where the 1.66 Yonah in my mini is the problem. granted, I dont use photoshop and I have the full whack of 2GB RAM - my beef with the mini is when I boot into 'doze and wanna play games - that GMA950 just can't cut the mustard.
So what would make me rush out and buy a new mini (and put this one under the TV) would be a faster graphics processor.
Cant see that happening any time soon tho.I can.I agree to that. I got the Mini thinking the GPU couldn't be that bad. I was really wrong. If they up the GPU I'll buy another one and be happy. If not - I'll live with the underpowered video of the mini until Apple finally releases a headless iMac (or something equivalent).Only thing holding back better GPU in mini and MacBooks is Intel. Apple needs to stick with IG for cost reasons. Just wating for Intel to start shipping better GPU so they can improve that ASAP. I'm with you guys. Waiting for that to improve as well. But may happen with this refresh. Don't know the IG roadmap so well. Read here the 965 set is delayed until early 2007.
Can anyone here confirm where we're at and going how soon on the Intel Integrated GPU front?Oh as a side note. The 965 chipset which features the GMA 3000 or GMA X3000 will indeed have more features (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2837), but preliminary benchmarks (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pconline.com.cn%2Fmarket%2Fsh%2Fshoppingguide%2Fchangshang%2F0608%2F844 892.html&langpair=zh-CN%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8) show it performing even worse than the GMA 950.
Edit: And you may be quite right on your prediction of the 965 chipset. Due to a design flaw (http://digitimes.com/mobos/a20060731A5025.html) in the integrated graphics subsystem (GMA X3000/3000) the availability of the chips has been delayed to mid August, making them just in time for new Mini's in September.Fantastic.
So what would make me rush out and buy a new mini (and put this one under the TV) would be a faster graphics processor.
Cant see that happening any time soon tho.I can.I agree to that. I got the Mini thinking the GPU couldn't be that bad. I was really wrong. If they up the GPU I'll buy another one and be happy. If not - I'll live with the underpowered video of the mini until Apple finally releases a headless iMac (or something equivalent).Only thing holding back better GPU in mini and MacBooks is Intel. Apple needs to stick with IG for cost reasons. Just wating for Intel to start shipping better GPU so they can improve that ASAP. I'm with you guys. Waiting for that to improve as well. But may happen with this refresh. Don't know the IG roadmap so well. Read here the 965 set is delayed until early 2007.
Can anyone here confirm where we're at and going how soon on the Intel Integrated GPU front?Oh as a side note. The 965 chipset which features the GMA 3000 or GMA X3000 will indeed have more features (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2837), but preliminary benchmarks (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pconline.com.cn%2Fmarket%2Fsh%2Fshoppingguide%2Fchangshang%2F0608%2F844 892.html&langpair=zh-CN%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8) show it performing even worse than the GMA 950.
Edit: And you may be quite right on your prediction of the 965 chipset. Due to a design flaw (http://digitimes.com/mobos/a20060731A5025.html) in the integrated graphics subsystem (GMA X3000/3000) the availability of the chips has been delayed to mid August, making them just in time for new Mini's in September.Fantastic.
thejadedmonkey
Mar 24, 01:32 PM
*Children Screaming in background
Im no snob against AMD GPUS...but their CPU's are nearly 2 generations behind intel. I dont think Bulldozer is going to match the 1155 SB, much less the upcoming 2011 socket chips.
What I want to see is a 27inch iMac with an HD 6970 2GB...Whoa whoa wee wow:eek:
But for something like the MBA, where your options are a C2D or iX CPU, and a GPU that's runs like it's 2+ years old, vs a new GPU and a newish CPU, I'll choose AMD over Intel any day of the week.
Im no snob against AMD GPUS...but their CPU's are nearly 2 generations behind intel. I dont think Bulldozer is going to match the 1155 SB, much less the upcoming 2011 socket chips.
What I want to see is a 27inch iMac with an HD 6970 2GB...Whoa whoa wee wow:eek:
But for something like the MBA, where your options are a C2D or iX CPU, and a GPU that's runs like it's 2+ years old, vs a new GPU and a newish CPU, I'll choose AMD over Intel any day of the week.
hokka
Jan 2, 05:39 AM
new iPod that can be used to control & maybe mirror what's shown on the new iTV within range, and it uses BT headphones to avoid the problem of plug & unplug 3.5 jack all the time. All changed from a single dock...
lordonuthin
Apr 13, 10:21 PM
congrats to whiterabbit for 13 million points!
Thanks.
That is about 11-12 days per 1 million points, which would mean about 2.5 million points per month. If I can keep that up for the rest of the year that would put me at around 34 million points or therabouts. The big question is can I afford to keep it up! and also if nothing breaks, catches fire, melts or runs away! :eek:
Thanks.
That is about 11-12 days per 1 million points, which would mean about 2.5 million points per month. If I can keep that up for the rest of the year that would put me at around 34 million points or therabouts. The big question is can I afford to keep it up! and also if nothing breaks, catches fire, melts or runs away! :eek:
toddybody
Apr 19, 11:11 AM
6950 6950 6950 6950 6950 6950 6950 6950 6950!
For heavens sake give it a nice GPU!!!!!!!!:eek:
For heavens sake give it a nice GPU!!!!!!!!:eek:
ethernet76
Sep 6, 10:48 AM
Somewhat decent, a bit faster than the 6600GT, less power consumption IIRC. Just look out for normal reviews in the PC territory, that should give you an idea. I think it would be a decent choice in a sub-$1000 computer... over that I'd be expecting something better. Still, the 6600GT which I have is pretty decent, can play most games at a good resolution and high quality settings.
I'm going to buy the basic Mini... the size makes the difference, since it's going to be used at different locations (every few months in a different country ;) ). A superdrive would be nice, but not neccessary.
Anyone knows if student discount and the "free printer" works with refurbs too?
It doesn't.
I'm going to buy the basic Mini... the size makes the difference, since it's going to be used at different locations (every few months in a different country ;) ). A superdrive would be nice, but not neccessary.
Anyone knows if student discount and the "free printer" works with refurbs too?
It doesn't.
ZrSiO4-Zircon
Jan 11, 05:55 PM
I really don't think Apple will come out with external optical drives... That is just too... complicated. Personally, and I think alot of people will agree, if you're going to have a small computer device, you don't want to carry another piece of equipment with you everywhere you go.
What's more believable (to me anyway) is the sub-notebook that syncs kind of like the iPod through iTunes.
Maybe iSync will handle that kind of syncing with what I have in mind?
I'm no fortune teller :p
What's more believable (to me anyway) is the sub-notebook that syncs kind of like the iPod through iTunes.
Maybe iSync will handle that kind of syncing with what I have in mind?
I'm no fortune teller :p
Multimedia
Sep 6, 12:09 PM
Whree is FireWire 800?On the iMac 24". :pAt least two FireWire ports, please.You can buy a FW Hub with 3 or more for $30.And a true 7200 rpm fast drive.Buy a 400GB PATA Drive at Fry's on a holiday for $100 and put it in a $30 FW Case. You can even boot off it by cloning your internal to the outside.What? No Core2 Duo? Why? The Core2 Duo costs the same as the Core Duo, according to Intel's price list. Is there a shortage of the Core2 chips, was Apple committed to purchasing a certain number of Core Duos, or was whoever decided to go with this configuration just temporarily insane?Supply. As soon as there are enough Core 2 Duos coming at Apple to fulfill their needs for the iMacs, MacBook Pros and MacBook then Apple will switch to Merom in the mini I think by Thanksgiving. It's a cool move by Apple 'cause they are immediately offering the speed bumps that they were planning for the Core 2 Duo version now instead of when they switch the chip once they get enough.
Music_Producer
Sep 7, 12:54 AM
I hope hope hope that iTMovieStore becomes a super success.... and I hope that Steve will force them into a $9.99-Only model and not that stupid $14.99 hierachy..... they'll have to "submit" after it becomes super successful. haha.
now seriously, movies here in new york are a blasted $10.50-10.75!!! ridiculous. I remember like "2 weeks ago" when movies were at most 8.75, but then when Star Wars Episode 1 came out and then Episode II, AMC 25 in manhattan suddenly bumped their prices up.....each time. "Oh, cause Star Wars, we must raise prices".
And, they've kept it ever since. Movies are making huge returns, and yet we have to pay a boat-load of money.. Soon it'll be $15. And you know what, Hollywood is going to pay and so will the theater chains. I hope the online model takes over at high quality. I can see it now, I'll pay $50 for a "rental" ...i won't mind........ when i have a 54" iTunes-DRM-signed code for mass-viewing (This is the future, i think) and i'll have 10 friends over.... it'll be Theater-replacement baby!! Like boxing on PPV.... pay $50 and have 10 friends over. I'd pay.... i am talking about current releases. And, when they are 3 months old... $9.99 to buy. THank you Apple. Now, Do it!
no more distribution costs. no more manufacturing costs. lower prices. right? Not if Hollywood has their way with ridiculous $19.99 prices... HELLO!! Hello!! that's DVD prices.... for a packaged DVD......!! HELLO!!! McFly!!
This is why I'm getting into Hollywood myself. I plan to be part of the revolution. Sure I like money just like any other schmoe. But, there is something wrong with everythign right now. Especially since all movies are crap these days.... formulaic and tired. And they want to keep raising the prices!
Rant over:confused:
Dude, stop ranting. Do you even work in the movie industry? God damn price of milk is going up too.. why don't you rant about that as well? I hate it when people complain about rising prices.. sheesh.. do you know that the cost of producing a movie or a music album has gone up?
If I don't like the price of a DVD, I don't buy it. If its a movie I really, really like.. then sure, I find the $19 price tag more than acceptable, because I know I will be watching the movie a couple of times. Nobody's asking you to buy a DVD of every single movie that comes out.
now seriously, movies here in new york are a blasted $10.50-10.75!!! ridiculous. I remember like "2 weeks ago" when movies were at most 8.75, but then when Star Wars Episode 1 came out and then Episode II, AMC 25 in manhattan suddenly bumped their prices up.....each time. "Oh, cause Star Wars, we must raise prices".
And, they've kept it ever since. Movies are making huge returns, and yet we have to pay a boat-load of money.. Soon it'll be $15. And you know what, Hollywood is going to pay and so will the theater chains. I hope the online model takes over at high quality. I can see it now, I'll pay $50 for a "rental" ...i won't mind........ when i have a 54" iTunes-DRM-signed code for mass-viewing (This is the future, i think) and i'll have 10 friends over.... it'll be Theater-replacement baby!! Like boxing on PPV.... pay $50 and have 10 friends over. I'd pay.... i am talking about current releases. And, when they are 3 months old... $9.99 to buy. THank you Apple. Now, Do it!
no more distribution costs. no more manufacturing costs. lower prices. right? Not if Hollywood has their way with ridiculous $19.99 prices... HELLO!! Hello!! that's DVD prices.... for a packaged DVD......!! HELLO!!! McFly!!
This is why I'm getting into Hollywood myself. I plan to be part of the revolution. Sure I like money just like any other schmoe. But, there is something wrong with everythign right now. Especially since all movies are crap these days.... formulaic and tired. And they want to keep raising the prices!
Rant over:confused:
Dude, stop ranting. Do you even work in the movie industry? God damn price of milk is going up too.. why don't you rant about that as well? I hate it when people complain about rising prices.. sheesh.. do you know that the cost of producing a movie or a music album has gone up?
If I don't like the price of a DVD, I don't buy it. If its a movie I really, really like.. then sure, I find the $19 price tag more than acceptable, because I know I will be watching the movie a couple of times. Nobody's asking you to buy a DVD of every single movie that comes out.
Object-X
Nov 28, 03:25 AM
Wow. For someone who seems to have all the answers, you're not reading the rest of this thread very well.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=252327
In short, Apple's monitors are for higher-end users. Anyone can go out and get a Dell. Most people do. If you want cheap and easy, you get a Dell monitor.
I noticed that you didn't mention any of the 20" NEC Displays that run much, MUCH higher in price than even Apple's. Now why are they so much more expensive? Are they too high-priced? Vastly overpriced?
There are differences. You'd know that if you took the time to look.
Yes, you are indeed correct. Those are "real" numbers. Numbers that are comparing two different types of monitors.
Next time you wish to present facts, try and present them all instead of just the ones that support your case.
Well, you just made my point better than me. Of the millions of Macs sold, how many are to customers needing correct color and really care about the finer details of the monitor's specs? If you're buying a $2400 + Mac Pro the choice is obvious and you could justify the higher price, but what about the low end?
I have both the Dell and the Apple cinema display 20". The Apple monitor is extremely dim, so much so I'm not buying the superior color argument with that model, it's very noticable; the iMac however is very bright and the colors look much richer. If you want to argue that the Apple monitor is sooo much better with color reproduction and the numbers don't lie, than OK, I'll give you that. But who cares? A very small percentage of Apple's market cares or could even tell the difference.
If Apple has been all about getting "switchers" and trying to persuade Windows users that Apple and OS X is better, than why is Apple ignoring that market with their monitor offering? You said so yourself, these are "PRO" monitors. Because they want you to buy iMacs. That's an extremely limited choice if you ask me. Oh, I can hear the fan boys now, screw you if you don't care about color seperation and the finer details of image quality. Go buy your $hi+ dell and get off of this board.
Apple sells a consumer mini, but not a consumer monitor? Why not? You all are hammering away at the professional quality of this monitor. But I have both the Dell and the Apple and they look about the same to me. Actually, before Apple updated their monitors the 20" looked terrible next to the Dell. (I have both generations) And are the "Pros" who need that color perfection buying 20" monitors? Probably not. 23" and 30" would be my guess. So why have a high priced 20" display?
So all this hupla about color correction is making my point. Apple wants you to buy an iMac and they keep their monitors price high and limit their computer offerings to give you the incentive to buy one. Since that's all they sell they are making a good profit off of them. Don't get me wrong, they are nice computers, beautiful even, but what if I wan't something more flexable? Maybe a little more expandible. My choice is a $600 mini (not too flexable or expandable) or a $2400 Mac Pro. Big Difference. Oh, that $1499 price spot fits nicely with an iMac however. See my point?
If they lower the price of the 20" any more it will cut into their sales of 20" iMacs. And that is why it's hovering close to $700 and not $200 or $300 cheaper. Apple won't make as much money off of a mini/cinema combo as they will off of a 20" iMac; especially if the profit margin on the monitor is razor thin.
So, comfort yourself all you want that you have a "pro" quality monitor. If that makes you feel better parting with $300 then go for it. I doubt you could tell the differnce with both monitors sitting side by side. I have both and I can't realy see a $200 - $300 price justification, at least at the low end. Oh, I'm just a poor consumer, not a "pro", so I should go buy my crappy Dell and be happy. Right? But if Apple really want's to get people to switch in larger numbers they need to offer a little more choice at a competitive price. A nice quality 20" monitor competitvly priced to go with that mini or a mid-range tower. I'm asking Apple to drop their price on their monitors $200 and offer a $1200 - $1500 tower. Is that asking too much?
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=252327
In short, Apple's monitors are for higher-end users. Anyone can go out and get a Dell. Most people do. If you want cheap and easy, you get a Dell monitor.
I noticed that you didn't mention any of the 20" NEC Displays that run much, MUCH higher in price than even Apple's. Now why are they so much more expensive? Are they too high-priced? Vastly overpriced?
There are differences. You'd know that if you took the time to look.
Yes, you are indeed correct. Those are "real" numbers. Numbers that are comparing two different types of monitors.
Next time you wish to present facts, try and present them all instead of just the ones that support your case.
Well, you just made my point better than me. Of the millions of Macs sold, how many are to customers needing correct color and really care about the finer details of the monitor's specs? If you're buying a $2400 + Mac Pro the choice is obvious and you could justify the higher price, but what about the low end?
I have both the Dell and the Apple cinema display 20". The Apple monitor is extremely dim, so much so I'm not buying the superior color argument with that model, it's very noticable; the iMac however is very bright and the colors look much richer. If you want to argue that the Apple monitor is sooo much better with color reproduction and the numbers don't lie, than OK, I'll give you that. But who cares? A very small percentage of Apple's market cares or could even tell the difference.
If Apple has been all about getting "switchers" and trying to persuade Windows users that Apple and OS X is better, than why is Apple ignoring that market with their monitor offering? You said so yourself, these are "PRO" monitors. Because they want you to buy iMacs. That's an extremely limited choice if you ask me. Oh, I can hear the fan boys now, screw you if you don't care about color seperation and the finer details of image quality. Go buy your $hi+ dell and get off of this board.
Apple sells a consumer mini, but not a consumer monitor? Why not? You all are hammering away at the professional quality of this monitor. But I have both the Dell and the Apple and they look about the same to me. Actually, before Apple updated their monitors the 20" looked terrible next to the Dell. (I have both generations) And are the "Pros" who need that color perfection buying 20" monitors? Probably not. 23" and 30" would be my guess. So why have a high priced 20" display?
So all this hupla about color correction is making my point. Apple wants you to buy an iMac and they keep their monitors price high and limit their computer offerings to give you the incentive to buy one. Since that's all they sell they are making a good profit off of them. Don't get me wrong, they are nice computers, beautiful even, but what if I wan't something more flexable? Maybe a little more expandible. My choice is a $600 mini (not too flexable or expandable) or a $2400 Mac Pro. Big Difference. Oh, that $1499 price spot fits nicely with an iMac however. See my point?
If they lower the price of the 20" any more it will cut into their sales of 20" iMacs. And that is why it's hovering close to $700 and not $200 or $300 cheaper. Apple won't make as much money off of a mini/cinema combo as they will off of a 20" iMac; especially if the profit margin on the monitor is razor thin.
So, comfort yourself all you want that you have a "pro" quality monitor. If that makes you feel better parting with $300 then go for it. I doubt you could tell the differnce with both monitors sitting side by side. I have both and I can't realy see a $200 - $300 price justification, at least at the low end. Oh, I'm just a poor consumer, not a "pro", so I should go buy my crappy Dell and be happy. Right? But if Apple really want's to get people to switch in larger numbers they need to offer a little more choice at a competitive price. A nice quality 20" monitor competitvly priced to go with that mini or a mid-range tower. I'm asking Apple to drop their price on their monitors $200 and offer a $1200 - $1500 tower. Is that asking too much?
Slix
Mar 26, 02:49 PM
This looks pretty amazing.
hkim1983
Oct 29, 08:31 PM
Hi everyone, I just recently purchased an Ipod Touch 4G to replace my aging 1G, and have decided to buy a case to help protect my investment (to resell at a later time) this time to avoid the massive damage my 1G went through (long story...it's not pretty anymore, but hey, it does work).
My requirements are as follows:
-It MUST protect the glass on the front if it were to fall face-down onto a hard surface. Now, I'm not expecting miracles here, but it has to offer some protection for this (if you're wondering, this is what happened to my 1G...).
-It must protect the back from scratches and whatnot, but I assume most cases do this by default...
-It must not compromise any ports/buttons at all.
-It must not be too bulky.
-This isn't a major thing, but I'd like to be able to open it up without too much of a hassle if the need arises.
-I'm looking to spend between $20-25 at most.
Right now, I've narrowed it down to the Griffen Reveal, Switcheasy Colors, and the iFrogz Luxe due to their overall positive reputations. Does anyone have any thoughts on the above 3? Does anyone have any other recommendations that I missed? Thanks.
My requirements are as follows:
-It MUST protect the glass on the front if it were to fall face-down onto a hard surface. Now, I'm not expecting miracles here, but it has to offer some protection for this (if you're wondering, this is what happened to my 1G...).
-It must protect the back from scratches and whatnot, but I assume most cases do this by default...
-It must not compromise any ports/buttons at all.
-It must not be too bulky.
-This isn't a major thing, but I'd like to be able to open it up without too much of a hassle if the need arises.
-I'm looking to spend between $20-25 at most.
Right now, I've narrowed it down to the Griffen Reveal, Switcheasy Colors, and the iFrogz Luxe due to their overall positive reputations. Does anyone have any thoughts on the above 3? Does anyone have any other recommendations that I missed? Thanks.
dalvin200
Oct 23, 06:51 AM
i'd like to see what's inside the new MBP's, though i already bought my MBP a couple weeks ago with no regrets.. i'd still like to see what those who are waiting will get for their hard earned patience
a 1 second increase in boot time? ;)
oops.. i blinked and I missed it :P
JUST KIDDING YOU SERIOUS GUYS OUT THERE
a 1 second increase in boot time? ;)
oops.. i blinked and I missed it :P
JUST KIDDING YOU SERIOUS GUYS OUT THERE
HecubusPro
Sep 1, 12:04 PM
If true, this is simply great news all around. The potential for updates, new additions to existing computer lines, iPods, iSight, etc. Was there ever a time where so much was happening in such a short span of time for Apple? I'm sure there was, but this is pretty impressive.
I almost want to drop my plans to get a C2D MBP and get a 23" iMac. Almost.:)
I almost want to drop my plans to get a C2D MBP and get a 23" iMac. Almost.:)
ChaunceyRC
Apr 2, 09:32 PM
Great ad, now on to WWDC!
steadysignal
May 2, 07:35 PM
sounds kookie.
GSPice
Apr 19, 11:24 AM
Brian Tong also claims to have dated women and have friends...both statements are so obviously contradicted by his horrible fashion sense and self destructive tendency to embarrass himself with every spoken word. He looks like a Shaolin Monk merged with Amy Winehouse.
I am considering making this my signature.
I am considering making this my signature.
johnwiseman
Aug 25, 07:23 AM
Has Dell or any other PC manufacturer started shipping Merom notebooks or Conroe PC's?
doberman211
Mar 22, 10:33 PM
Agreed. I like the mocup but tbh any thunderbolt would be integrated into the dock connector and any hdmi would be strictly Bluetooth. i would not like to see a larger screen, but perhaps higher definition say 360p or 480p instead of the 240p. no real updates on the OS. it's fine. maybe just some updates in itunes as sometimes when i sync it i end up with 5 of the same albums also would like the albums to sort by year instead of name. or maybe it already does that and i havent figured it out. dono. and plz NO CAMERAS! FRONT OR BACK!
alent1234
Apr 22, 09:43 AM
Why would Apple release an iMac refresh a couple of months before a new OS debuts? Also, this would be the FASTEST REFRESH IN APPLE HISTORY at 9 months.
You all fell for the hype and made Bri@n T0ng (eat that SEO) and Sea-NET advertising revenue. :rolleyes:
because a lot of people will buy the iMac and then 10.7 for another $29 or so. more money in their pockets
You all fell for the hype and made Bri@n T0ng (eat that SEO) and Sea-NET advertising revenue. :rolleyes:
because a lot of people will buy the iMac and then 10.7 for another $29 or so. more money in their pockets
firestarter
Mar 19, 12:00 PM
Editorials, they're like *******s. :D
Many on the right and some on the left here have been all over him for dragging his feet. Murdoch's NY rag said Hillary was the only one who wanted to take military action and it took her 3 weeks to gather enough administration support. Then again, who the hell knows?
Absolutely. Bloody politicians... where's Wikileaks when you need it! :D
Many on the right and some on the left here have been all over him for dragging his feet. Murdoch's NY rag said Hillary was the only one who wanted to take military action and it took her 3 weeks to gather enough administration support. Then again, who the hell knows?
Absolutely. Bloody politicians... where's Wikileaks when you need it! :D
